From the Mediterranean to California, Davos 2026 discusses creating fire-resilient forests and applying technology to fight increasingly frequent wildfires
Wildfires are no longer episodic local disasters but a systemic risk shaped by climate extremes, land management, and economic incentives. Celeste Saulo of WMO described a reinforcing loop: more fires mean more CO2, which drives hotter “fire weather” and further burning, amplified by droughts, heat waves, lightning, chaotic winds, and post-storm debris that becomes “new fuel.” The panel argued that resilience depends as much on pre-fire forest stewardship as on suppression.
Josef Aschbacher of ESA showed how Earth observation is moving from monitoring to prediction: satellites track global fires via a “World Fire Atlas,” new sensors estimate forest biomass, and emerging onboard AI can detect ignitions and signal responders quickly. The next step is “digital twins” that simulate futures—e.g., deforestation scenarios—to make consequences concrete for decision-makers.
On the ground, Veja’s Francois Morillion linked conservation to livelihoods in Amazon “extractive reserves,” paying communities not only for rubber but also for stewardship: “Half…for the product, half…for the service.” Yet he warned that dry seasons make traditional burning riskier and called for “technological alternative[s]” to clearing with fire.
IFS CEO Mark Moffat framed wildfire as infrastructure and economic disruption, urging open data and interoperability. The shared ambition: “Nobody should be taken by surprise by a wildfire,” enabled by co-produced data that reaches citizens and managers “on a mobile phone.”
Hi everyone. Welcome to Canters Tame the Flames, where we're going to take a look at investments in forests as infrastructure for wildfire resilience. My name is Eileen Lee. I'm the president of the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, a philanthropy based in Silicon Valley and founded by, Doctor Gordon Moore and his wife, Betty. And we focus on environmental conservation and cutting edge research. And I am delighted to be joined today by a very distinguished panel of experts who you'll get to hear from. But just to introduce them briefly to my left is Josef Aschbacher, the director general of the European Space Agency. And then we have Mark Moffatt, the CEO of IFS, and then Celeste Saulo, the secretary general of the World Meteorological Organization. And finally, Francois Marion, the co-founder and CEO and sourcing director of Veja and also of the Schwab Foundation for Social Entrepreneurship. So, I think we all know that the frequency, intensity and impacts of wildfire have grown at really a staggering pace in the last few years. And I suspect that we can all find common purpose in trying to manage these shared risks and, and what they pose to people and planet. But while it's easy for us to envision and tally the hard infrastructure investments that go into fighting these large fires and building back from massive events, Pre-fire investments in forests as the natural infrastructure that can make us more resilient to wildfire events is a relatively neglected area. Despite the science, which tells us that well-managed forests resourced for long term stewardship can make all the difference, while also really delivering a really wide range of nature based benefits. Not all forests reduce wildfire risk, and well-managed forests don't all look the same. Where I'm from. In California, periodic fires are an important part of the natural process of regenerating healthy forests, and maximum suppression has actually made us more vulnerable to massive wildfire events. But in the Amazon, where the foundation also works quite a bit, the introduction of fire through man made ignition events, coupled with a changing climate, is unleashing wildfires in a place where the forest has far less capacity to recover. The really good news is that we have many of the tools we need to shape the right kinds of investments in forests as natural infrastructure for wildfire resilience, and putting them together to deliver the solutions that will need are is going to require new partnerships across governments, the private sector, civil society. Which is why I'm really excited that the foundation has partnered with the World Economic Forum to launch the Global Wildfire Leadership Network. Okay. So let's turn to our panel. I help us understand why. What I'd like to do in this first section is help us understand why forest management has become just as critical to wildfire outcomes as forest suppression. And, Celeste, I'm going to go to you for the first question. How are climate and weather extremes interacting with forest conditions to reshape fire behavior, particularly in forest rich regions?
Well, thank you. Thank you very much for that question. And I would like to highlight maybe three main aspects in this, in this interaction between climate, weather events and of course, wildfires. First of all, we need to recognize that there is a negative feedback. The the negative feedback comes from more wildfires introducing more CO2 into the atmosphere. And then of course, greenhouse gases that are responsible for increasing the temperature and then creating more fire weather. So that is a very clear negative impact. And we could see very clearly in 2024 where Canada had those tremendous, wildfires that the, the, the, the increase of CO2 was tremendous as well. So that is a negative feedback on climate. At the same time, we all know that fire weather. So the weather that facilitates fire is increasing. So we are speaking about not only, droughts, we are speaking about heat waves. We are speaking about storms with a lot of thunderstorms that that of course, initiate fire and chaotic winds. I would say that, of course, drive even more and more fire. So that is the second element. And the third one, I would say that, after a disaster, for example, a hurricane, lots of vegetation are lost and that will be dry vegetation for the upcoming season. And if you do not prepare in advance that negative, of course, amount of, vegetation that could be dried and could be also be part of a the the next wildfire season will be like a new fuel for the, for the wildfires. So, we need to recognize that wildfires are not, individual or local phenomena anymore, as you highlighted in your in your introductory remarks. These are systemic problems, and we need to address it in a systemic way. So these are the three elements that I wanted to highlight in this first intervention.
Thank you Celeste. Fire weather is a sobering concept as it's spreading around the world. Joseph, how can space technologies and Earth observation support better understanding and management of wildfire risk? And what role are Europe and the ESA playing in advancing those capabilities?
So thank you. Thank you, Eileen, for for for this question. What can space do and what are we doing in Europe? First of all, our satellites are really monitoring our planet Earth and they monitor the atmosphere, the oceans, the land surface, the polar regions. So we have a pretty good picture of what happens on which spot on the globe with constantly with all kinds of instruments and measurements and of course, fires and and forests are one of the parameters. We are particularly interested because they are participating very significantly, as I just mentioned, to the what we call the global carbon balance. That means the circulation of of carbon from the forests, the atmospheres and the soil, and including also the oceans. So this is really a circle. This is a is a balance that we are monitoring. So we monitor all these parameters from the forest to the to the carbon sinks, carbon sources in the oceans and on the land and in the atmosphere. So this is quite fundamental. So what do we do in particular. We have actually a number of satellites who are measuring different parameters. They are part of the what we call the Copernicus program. We've built it up over the last 25 years. It's really the the leading Earth observation program today with many sensors measuring parameters on forest. We have actually just launched last year an additional satellite called biomass that looks into tropical biomass of all forests. But the tropical ones are the ones that are particularly difficult to measure by hand, because normally you would need to go there and measure the size of the trunk and therefore define how much biomass this tree has, and therefore later on count the trees and the forest. So we do it from space, and then we use a technology that is unique, that doesn't exist anywhere else, which is the p band radar that goes through the canopy and really looks through the canopy of the trees and sees the stems and the biomass itself. So it's quite, quite important for the carbon cycle, which I mentioned before, but also on fire and forest fire, forest deforestation. We really have programs that are geared to do exactly that. We have what we call the World Fire Atlas, where we have every day an update on on fires worldwide and fires. You may not, you may expect them to be only in the tropical regions or in Greece, or in Italy, or in southern countries or in California. Know you have fires in Canada, you have fires in in Russia, you have fires everywhere in the globe. And of course, we measure them and we have an atlas. What? Where there are fires. And therefore, of course, to have an indication there's more sophisticated means coming up now. And this is really the new elements where we have these sensors, of course, monitoring the fire, but also already an AI chip on board who is automatically in space by the satellite detecting a fire emerging. And that, of course, is important for fire brigades or anyone who wants to extinguish it. So we the satellite flies over cease fire immediately signals down to the ground. There is a fire. Please do something about it with the location. And then you can immediately, of course, deploy forces and take measures. So it's really getting more and more sophisticated with more and more frequency of observations, better resolution. So it's really an observation from space, which is quite unique and quite powerful.
That's amazing. Okay, so let's go from the eyes in the sky to the boots on the ground. Francois, you've been working in the Amazon. How do forest management and community stewardship affect resilience, not only ecologically, but economically for local livelihoods and what you're seeing in supply chains?
Well, first, thank you for having me. It's a it's a bold choice. I mean, some people might not really understand why I'm here. Why is a shoe company invited to a conference on wildfire? But yes, it's because when we started, we looked at how to have a positive impact doing our shoes, and we looked at interesting projects that we could support with our brand. And when we looked at rubber, we found out that in Brazil they are, specific, way of occupying the forest, through, what they call extractive reserves. The name in English doesn't sound as as good as it is in Portuguese. But the idea is that these places, these forests are inhabited. This is like the first important thing to say, because in Europe, we don't have we don't have, this anymore. We don't have people living in the forest. But in Brazil, you have a lot of of people, who were sent actually to these forests during the rubber booms in the past, but who have maintained their activity and, through this, what they call extractive. But it's again, the name can be can sound a bit contradictory, but they're extractive activities is basically collecting the products that the forest gives them. So we are talking about rubber, we're talking about nuts, and we're talking about acai like the three main, like three main products, that are not cultivated, but really like, picked, in the forest. And so Veja has connected with cooperative, cooperatives of, of producers. And today we, we work with 2500 families. So in terms of like, each family usually takes care of around 2 to 300 hectares. So if you do the math, it's like something like 500,000 hectares. I think if I'm not wrong, like half a million hectares, that are being preserved through this economic activity. So, and the rubber there is not planted. It's wild, rubber or maybe planted, some thousand years ago by by the indigenous people. But it's not planted like the rubber we used to see when we think about rubber. So it's not a plantation. And this is where we have to do a special effort, economic effort. Because the price paid to the family cannot be the same as the planted rubber. Because you can imagine that the effort to collect this rubber is a lot bigger because the trees are distant, one from another. So you need a lot more time. So productivity is lower, but if you pay the right price, then you can compete with the other preferred activity in the region that is cattle ranching. And this is where we have to lead with fire. But fire is not only linked to cattle ranching, it's also used for agriculture. Because every year in the reserves, the people are allowed. And this is good to, to for them to plant. But actually this is one of the problems that now with the fact that the forest is becoming more inflammable when they do their clearing, usually around September, the forest is so dry. So a bit like what you were saying. So the risk of, of of, the fire, like, going wild and and bigger is, is higher.
Thank you.
What was the Portuguese expression?
No, it's just that in Portuguese they call it a reserve extractivist. And it doesn't have, like, the kind of negative meaning, that it has, you know, in terms of. Because when we talk about Extractivism, I don't know, in English it sounds more like oil and gas activities than, pick some nuts and rubber from the trees. So. But it's the name that was chosen, and, and that's it. And it is around the same, the reserves were created in the 80s, and they were actually inspired by the indigenous, reserves. So the the way of occupying the land is a bit similar. That means that it is a shared, responsibility between the federal government and the local, associations. So it's a very unique kind of, of forest management, that has proven results. I mean, the, the federal reserves, when the federal government is in line with forest preservation, they preserve massive areas of forest through people.
Yeah. Well, it sounds like Vega has made some serious investment in these community forest management approaches. Maybe we can turn now. Marc, to talk a little bit about why wildfire risk is increasingly a systemic challenge for industries and infrastructure that are dependent on investments in forest landscapes.
Yeah. I mean, I think there's so many impacts from wildfires. Now, of course, there's CO2 impacts. And I think it's something I read recently. There's about six gigatons of impact from wildfires on an annual basis. That's like two times the amount of clean tech abortion of carbon. So there's a carbon impact for sure. But the economic damage is huge. The disruption often when it relates to infrastructure, whether it be power lines, whether it be utilities, whether it be, water, heat, light, power is just off the scale. So now, I think, you know, the level of the impact from wars is so big. That's one of the reasons, candidly, why my business is I run an international software business, and a big part of our portfolio is about bringing world class maintenance capability to bear for a number of industries that we support, including utilities. So thinking much more, we spent a lot of time thinking much more holistically about this kind of systemic risk and how to be more preventative or help companies and institutions be more preventative in how they think about maintenance routines. So it's not just about managing an opex line, but it's about managing crisis and disaster aversion and economic impact of the tens of billions of dollars. And that includes, of course, forest management includes looking at equipment and infrastructure. It includes thinking through the ability to use other data from space. I've got some ideas already for you, Joseph. So we're thinking much more holistically, and we're thinking about how to be more proactive in maintenance management.
So despite the scale of impacts that Marc just shared with us and what it sounds like in your case, a really proactive approach in general.
$45 billion of damage with the Laf's last year just huge.
Yes. And I think despite that, what we actually see is your approach is rare, right? In the sense that much more goes into recovery than kind of pre-fire investments. So I'd like to maybe move in this next section to looking a little bit at I think, I think the world needs to hear the evidence that it's possible, right, that when you make these early investments that it really is making a difference. So I'd love to just explore where we're seeing the signs that this early information and on the ground knowledge is actually changing decisions. So maybe, Joseph, I'll start with you. You've given us a sense of what's possible. How is the ESA supporting wildfire monitoring and management through Earth observation? And how is AI being used to turn this data into actionable intelligence?
As you said, and as I mentioned before, of course we monitor the planet with all our sensors, and there are several satellites doing that. What you said, Mark, is, is quite important because this really is the the end to end chain that we need to, to consider. And their AI comes to, to play. But on one side I mentioned the the Wildfire Atlas, which is really a tool to regularly monitor where it is burning. And therefore a warning, people, if there is a major fire. But also AI we really employed, globally. We have just created a new app which, which, which is, which is looking at all our satellite images, and we are having them going back decades and really analyzing them of for fires, for traces of fires, for statistics, but also sometimes insurance claims or similar applications. And there you really see that AI is merged into the observation part of, of of observations. We even can go a step further. And this is work in progress in development is not yet fully deployed, but something where we have the elements on one side, we have, a huge set of observations from space on the ground or whatever means we get on the other side. We have very good Earth system models so that we can model what happens if. And this really is, starting with mythology. Celestia was pointing out the the role of mythology and the wmo's role, which is fantastic in, in this sense. So you have, Earth system models. You, need very powerful computers in order to run these models and to merge them with all the observations that we have. And then comes AI on top as a new tool, a new element to really, put this together. So what we do, we create a digital twin of our planet or of parts of our planet. And let's take the example of the Amazon forest, which is under threat, as you know very well. And of course, we monitor on one side, but we can also simulate what would happen if the Amazon forest would be even more deforested. Let's just do a experiment of thought that if we would DeForest 30% of it, which, of course, would be disastrous, and what would would be the implications on one side in terms of carbon that is released to the atmosphere and therefore less forest available to do convert carbon dioxide into oxygen? That's one effect, but also temperature will increase. Settlements or sea level will rise globally. Settlements will be endangered. How many people will be displaced or how many peoples daily life would be endangered, how much food security would be endangered, and so on. So you can really model that, through digital twins. And I prefer having a twin than the reality. So if you have these twins, you can really show quite drastically what would happen if you continue this way or if it goes to a certain pace. So you really can bring in all the modern tools of technologies which we have. And with future modeling, we have just in Eastern European Space Agency last year installed a high performance computer for space to do exactly this kind of modeling. And this digital twins in order to to have these simulations.
So with this capacity to improve the models in the forecasts, maybe Celeste, I'll go to you. How do these early warning systems and seasonal forecasts inform the practical decisions around whether it's thinning, prescribed burning and resource positioning that are needed to better manage the forests? Well.
Thank you, because you gave me the floor to to really emphasize the importance of the dialogue between different communities of knowledge, of practice and, and putting all the pieces together. In this case, of course, satellite information is kind of a crucial piece because the early detection of of of hotspots is the is is is absolutely relevant. But then it comes the early warning that it's, it's a mix of satellite observations plus models, plus the translation of those models into something that is actionable but by a fire manager. And that is not so I would say not so obvious. It needs a conversation with the kind of decision making that is at stake when you have to manage fires. And then it comes also with the issue that, of course, not all the wildfires are managed in the same way. So we need to understand is it is it about thinning? It's about really having thinning policies and or prescribing, fires in advance to avoid, even larger losses. And for those decision making seasonal forecasts, long term forecasts are absolutely crucial. And we have seen examples in Australia, in Canada, in Europe in general, that these seasonal forecasts that are allowing, those that are decision makers to see if the system will be drier than usual and, or it will be, with more fuel than others, then they can put their, their, element at place to make sure that we reduce the damage as much as possible. But it's I will go again into the systemic approach and in this case, just to build with the communities and, or the decision managers the right tools, because sometimes from the technological approach, from the scientific point of view, we have super good, techniques or tools. But if we don't do that last mile, they are not effective. So that is part of the idea of the early warnings for all initiative. And that is where we are all together, I'm sure, working collectively to, to to make it happen and be more effective.
So equipping these communities on the ground with the resources at the right time scales so that they can plan and manage, it seems very important. And maybe going back to you, Francois, what have you learned about what it takes to sustain the kind of long term commercial partnerships that you have with these communities around forest conservation?
Okay, just to to bounce back on on your idea for, for, I mean, for us and for the rubber tappers, I think that would be fabulous to have like that kind of information, because usually it's for them, for the clearing, it's choosing the right timing to do that. And for example, if, if, if, if the season is very, very dry, like we've been having like dry seasons that are too dry, then it's wiser to wait for the first or second rains to start putting fire so that the risk of like, the whole thing, burn. Well, so yeah, I think that would be very useful for them on like a very practical basis to, okay, this is the time or not. And usually they have the knowledge, but, it's more like empirical knowledge and you can do mistakes. So, yeah. And so let's going back to, to our, our work. Honestly, when we started 22 years ago, we didn't know we would get so much involved in forest conservation because we are talking about that, and, it's because we needed rubber. And then we discovered the whole system. And then, in the beginning, we were because we started with the fair trade approach. So the price of the product should be fair for the family. And I would say that along the years, we've seen the pressure on the forest getting higher, especially with the, the, the cattle, with the prices of the cattle, being higher. So the activity became more attractive. And we've seen in our supply chains people abandoning rubber or doing less rubber because they were investing in cattle. So basically people making money with us, with rubber because we pay a good price and then investing their money in destruction, like in forest destruction. So something that we of course, didn't like. And so we realized we needed to go one step ahead. And this is when we decided that we would continue with the Fairtrade price and so on. But then we would make an arrangement, a new kind of arrangement with the families that they will certainly receive for the rubber, but also receive look so like for the product that they're producing, but also receive a part for the service that they are providing that is, steward like maintaining the forest alive. And today, half of what the families are receiving is for the product, half is for the service. So we have a contract in place where we we pay like the same amount of money goes to the cooperatives and the family because it's also a collective work. It's not only individually managed, but the cooperatives have to manage, this agreement. And this is where we use, of course, satellite images and, and a system that, that, gives us some annual reports on whether each, like, the families, have respected the rules of the area where they're living because sometimes they are in a reserve with, with like, I mean, we're not requesting them to be better than the law. So they have to respect the regulation where they live and depending on on the place and the type of reserve, it can vary. And it's a very powerful tool. And of course, they receive this money for forest conservation if they respect the agreement. So yes, we have a review annually of all the images. And the funny thing is that when we started doing this, we thought, okay, we will. It's just going to be automatic. You know, if you're if you're, above a 10%, for example, if you're below 10% of your area deforested, meaning you're okay because you have to respect certain rules in the most of the reserves. And also you cannot take down more than one hectare per year. So, okay, if the machine says yes, it's okay. If the machine says no, then what happens? We have to go on the field. So actually the machine does not do everything we need still to to go on the field to see what really happened, if it was like intentional or not intentional, whatever.
And yeah, so I'm hearing, you know, kind of once you've seen the bigger system getting upstream of the problem and having the information to do it. Mark, you've really been, I think, pushing us to think upstream of the problem, turning complex data into this kind of frontline decision support. Tell us about how the digital systems are helping forest managers move from that kind of reactive posture to more anticipatory management.
Yeah, I think classically the anticipatory management kind of that word has been about when a wildfire or natural disaster has commenced, how quickly can one get on top of it? And it's a statement of the obvious, but the sooner you can get on top of it, the easier it is to contain and the less economic and other damage that results. And I think about what Joseph has talked about in terms of the ability to use that type of data. Of course, that means everything, but the more we can take that upstream into preventative measures based on real events that have occurred, based on simulations based on other data and probabilistic scenarios, then obviously that gets you to the point where you've you've dealt with the issue before it even arises in the first place. The, the and putting that kind of information and that data in the hands of the actual people who've got the experience, who make the decisions, I think is super critical, and we must be relentlessly focused on that.
Maybe if I could add something to what Mark was just saying. I think this is exactly what, what I would say a modern chain could, could do, starting from boundary conditions like weather, like humidity, like soil coverage and so on, going towards, I would say a predictive model and have fire risk maps that you identify those areas that are more at risk because of temperature, because of, of land cover, because of other parameters. And I think this fire risk, in fact, this is something that we are working on to really have better tools not only to to start worrying when the fire occurs, but already in advance, knowing that this area is very high, at risk because high temperatures are coming, it's very dry. And the boundary conditions that mean the soil and and other parameters are in favour of that. So these these fire risk maps are, I think, very important for you and your business in the future to really have this end to end or this holistic approach.
But we're constrained right now because we have a scheduling and optimization engine we've built over decades, but it's on classical vectors. It's about experience of individuals and response crews. It's about location. It's about proximity. It's not about those data objects which are beginning to talk about. And if we had access to that level of data, we're able to collaborate in a more kind of ecosystem.
That this data that we are providing are free of charge for free. So everyone in the world can download them from a website for free, right? Of course you have then to interpret them and make good use of it. But this is one of the services that we and I've been really myself, I would almost say fighting for it to get this free and open data policy accepted by all the governments and all the stakeholders in in the loop at the end, it's, we hand over the satellites to the European Commission and they are in charge of the data policy, but we have discussed it some 1213. It was in 2008, 2010, when we have been building up the system, and there was a huge discussion pro and con, because some people said, look, if you invest billions in this observation system, which is fantastic, what do we do with the data? Who owns them? Are you selling them? Are you giving them to restricted users, to European users or anyone? So we were really discussing it at length, and I was arguing a lot that this goes to anyone for free of any place in the world. So anyone in Amazon or any other place in the world, you can download them of any data that we have taken. So this is really something that that we offer for those of you or for those online who want to look at it, just search for Sentinel data access. It's the free and open data policy of which we provide. European Space Agency is doing this together with the European Commission.
Probably has now. And if customers are going to expect this.
Right.
Don't say to anyone.
Well, I think we're kind of moving naturally to just through the course of the conversation, hearing the different pieces of the puzzle that, that you're all seeing and maybe the places where the dots aren't quite connecting for the solutions that we need. You know, one of my, my sense when, whenever we start talking about wildfire is many people have a pretty good sense of what needs to happen. And yet the fragmentation means that we're not going to get there unless we can bring together these partnerships at a different scale. We're running a little short on time. So rather than kind of ask each of you a question, maybe I'll just ask all of you the same question. I would love to hear you all sit in a slightly different piece of the problem, with also maybe a different piece of the solution. What do you need most in terms of partnership from others? Right. And what do you see as the most important steps we can take to bring these pieces together?
I mean, the obvious thing is, standard open data standards, willingness to collaborate on an API basis, willing to invest and to make the type of data that Joseph has suggested available, you know, on a on a kind of unconditional basis, recognizing the contribution it can make to society and economies. And I sit here thinking, you know, the nature of the role that we provide, supporting disaster response agencies, utility organizations, Forestry Commission's as a technology software company. You know, I come away from this panel thinking we need to do better.
Say a little bit more about the open data standards. So who needs to align around that? Right? Who are the people that need to be around the table to bring that together?
Literally anyone that has data available that can help one predict better the the occurrence and the mitigation of wildfires. So yes, space agencies I'm thinking environmental agencies. I'm thinking Forestry Commission's. I'm thinking the utility companies themselves. It's incredible to me that in a number of cases, from experience, you know, the infrastructure that's managed by utility companies, they themselves don't have all the data that's needed in order to maintain their equipment to the right level. So it's right across the ecosystem.
If I may, I would like to jump on on what you have just mentioned, because for me, the key word would be co-production and sharing of data, because from the space agency, from the World Meteorological Organization, National Meteorological Services, we have an open data policy. But that is not enough because it's to translate data of the geosciences into impact data. You need social data. You need impact data, you need economic data. And so I think that that kind of partnerships is absolutely essential to really co-produce a product that will address a particular problem. And we've been speaking about, forests and agriculture mostly. But I would like to add health because when you have fires, one of the most impacted people are those that are exposed to asthma and other illnesses that expose them to, to, to, to the risk of smoke. And again, you need to understand that decision making process. You need to work with the health sector and make sure that your alerting system, your early warning system, or your data goes into their decision making. And smoke is different from fire, but still is a big, big problem. So I would say that, co-producing, understanding that there are issues that you can, solve at the global kind of a perspective or from a space agencies or WMO, FAO, the Food and Agriculture Organization, World Health Organization, and then national and locally using that local knowledge that it's incredibly valuable for decision making at the local scale. That would be my my my point here.
I can only agree with the health because, you know, when you go to the Amazon in September, you you cannot breathe. It's terrible. And you have like really like lines in the hospitals, people that have very serious health issues, because every year this smoke season comes back. And, you know, in terms of what we would need, I'm always dreaming of, of, of finding other technologies to clear land without having to burn it because, this is so easy for, you know, to just put fire and and there is, there is not, not really like an alternative, a technological alternative. So if someone has the solution, a cheap way to, to do that for, yeah. That's, that's I think that would, solve part of the problem in the Amazon forest at least.
I mean, being the last one in the row of, on the same question is very easy for me to, to really listen, but also it gives me the opportunity to connect all the dots that you mentioned because you mentioned, different aspects of it. And I think, what we really need, and you have said it, I'm just, putting this together is that, we, we combine different types of information, starting with meteorology or with weather, with drought, landscape information. We combine it with local information. Very important. Then, economic information, the impact of it, but also, the cost of, of, of certain ways of doing it, modeling it. Obviously the space data is one source of income, not the only one, but one important one. And if you put all this together, and, you can do it. We know we have the individual pieces, but you would need to, to simulate it. And I mentioned digital twins before, but this can also be more localized ones. And my, my imagination of this would be that we have this, warning system information system, but also preventive information systems. So to inform people before something happens. And at the end we we have this on a mobile phone on every single citizen can use it. At the moment it's us at European Space Agency. It's some institutions. It's some individualized organizations who have the capability and who are trained and so on. But in fact, it should be so simple. It should be brought to a to a mobile phone, and with a health warning. And there are already health warning apps, but I think this all needs to be integrated, using all the information that we have, we have at stake and then really use it locally where it is needed by the citizens and by the people in order to really make maximum use of it.
Okay, great. Well, our panel is starting to draw to a close, so, maybe just if to bring us home. If each of you wants to share and ask you to keep it brief, but a one sentence reflection on, in the next five years, right? This is there's an urgency to this problem. If we want to ensure that forests reduce wildfire risk rather than amplify it. What's the most important thing that we can do?
I would start with information so we can provide it from space. But there's also other sources of information. Information awareness or information of citizens, but also decision makers in order to understand the magnitude of the problem and therefore help finding solutions before the the problem becomes a real problem and therefore try to prevent it as much as you can.
IFS has this cultural expression of speed is life and no more. Is that true in this particular case? And I think the quicker we can get to figuring out how we get as upstream as possible, whether that be forestation, whether that be other measures, that's the key. And it's going to be about data, collaboration and a willingness for all the actors to play together.
I fully echo what you have already mentioned. I would say that nobody should be taken by surprise by a wildfire. That would be our gold standard. That's where we should be aiming at. Nobody should be taken by surprise. And to achieve that, we need science. We need data. We need private sector, we need indigenous knowledge, and we need international organizations to make sure that these efforts are equally spread around the world.
And I would say that, in my perspective, we need to to give more value to the forests. So that means economic value. And, you know, we have now a great, European regulation on deforestation, but there is not so much talk about how, how we can how we can do this, and we have to pay more for the products if we want them to be made without deforestation. So we have to give more value. I think this is somehow absent from the conversation. This this question is not so much into the conversation, but and I'm saying very practical things like wood is very cheap. We need to pay more for, for wood, for paper, for the, the products that the forest give us. And the forest gives us a lot more than this. But this is because the forest gives us much more than this. Gives us water, gives us, climate, gives us beauty, gives us a lot of other services. But at least the products that the forest gives us should be paid. Yeah. Reevaluated at my my perspective.
Yeah. So. So thank you all. What I'm taking from this session is investment in forests is really an economic imperative. Right. And equipping, the people who are managing them with the resources, the data, the insight that they need is a really powerful investment in, I think, what what did you say? Moving at the speed of life in terms.
Of it is life.
Speed is life in terms of getting us upstream. It also sounds like we have a kind of compelling, provocation, right? That all of us need to figure out how we can put those pieces together, expand the table, and really get to those collaborations to unlock that different data and insight. So I started by introducing my foundation. Which is the foundation of Doctor Gordon Moore, who was known for Moore's Law. And what Gordon would often remind us was that Moore's Law was not a law of the physical universe, but rather a law about what was possible. Right? If we all had a shared vision of the roadmap to drive an industry forward. I'm hoping that what I hear is energy here to kind of build that shared vision. So thank you so much. I've really enjoyed this. And thank you to the forum for hosting us for this session today. And thank you to our viewers.
Thank you. Thank you.